022 – SEO Is A Game of Displacement

Hello, welcome

to the WPSEO show today. We’re talking about the fact that SEO is a game of displacement. I’m Jeff. This is Pete. How’s it going,

Pete? Hey, it’s all good, mate. How’s it? Oh yeah. How is it over in sunny California? It is

actually sunny. It is, uh, it’s not quite spring technically, but it feels like it here.

And I’m so happy. I love springtime. Maybe not the allergies, but the rest of

it, it was, it’s not dark outside yet.

Yeah, I know. Right. Sometimes we get on and we always, we always record, I read about the same time and it’s either pitch black or on one of our screens and bright and sunny. And the other, that’s the fun part of doing a podcast around the world, across the world.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, so we’re talking, we’re talking about SEO being a game of displacement and, and practically what that means for you as a website owner or a website builder and, uh, you know, well, yeah. How that means you need to approach stuff. It’s going to be, going to be good.

Yeah, you know, I think looking at this topic from like a very high level, I, I’ve dealt with it most when it comes to like performance, right?

And that’s such a huge concern for people these days, you know, is my website loading in under three seconds is doing this isn’t doing that. And It’s, you know, it’s all relative to so many different factors, but I try to tell people all the time that that’s a tiebreaker, right? Like, I mean, certainly you don’t want your website loading in 20 seconds or anything like that.

But like, if it’s loading really, really good, but maybe not perfect, you’re not going to get penalized for that. But if somebody else’s is for all intents, you know, equal as far as ranking goes and all of that, and their websites loading twice as fast as yours. Well, they’ll win that race, you know, I mean, it’s a, you know, so it’s, it’s all relative to kind of where you are and what you’re competing

against.

Yeah, that’s a very good way of looking at it. And, you know, we’re both, we’ll get, we’ll get the, uh, the, the mention in really early on this episode, we’re both members of the admin bar and, you know, there’s loads of posts. You don’t go through a day without a post being in there about, Hey, what’s your stack for this?

Or what’s your plugin for that or whatever. And the reality is that. In the vast majority of cases, it doesn’t really matter too much as long as the plugin is stable and maintained and, you know, has, has good. Good authority within the WordPress repo and all of that kind of stuff. It doesn’t really matter if you use plugin B, it doesn’t matter if you particularly use Yoast or rank math or SEO press pro it, it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, but what is going to matter is if.

It’s contextual to the people that you are trying to beat in the search engines. And if they are well optimized using a really well thought out tool, then you know what your free version of some backstreet SEO plugin probably isn’t going to cut it and you’re going to need to, you’re going to need to put a proper plan in place for that.

It, it, yeah, it comes down to the, the competition in the search engines, not actually what. You want to use, if you see what I mean.

Yeah. I mean, if you’re the only website, if you know, or the website you’re working on or your client or whatever it is, if you’re the only one in that industry and or local area or whatever, guess what?

You’re going to be number one, you know, but if there’s one other one, well, you’re going to need to beat them in. You know, in various ways it’s, it’s, it’s really actually a pretty simple way to think about it. But I think for years now, and this isn’t anything new, I mean, we’ve been seeing the same type of, uh, issues and concerns and, and sometimes hours and hours and hours of work being put into the wrong things simply because.

That’s what the industry says. And yes, it’s important, but you have to look at it from a higher

level. Well, and that’s, that’s the thing. And I mean, we were talking about this before we, before we connected for the show, um, the, it’s really important to understand, and we’ve mentioned this before, what, why.

What SEO means to Google and SEO to Google is the way that they can charge the most for the ads at the top of the search results, right? Google’s a business. It’s there to make money. It doesn’t make any money off the organic listings. It makes money off the ads that it can, it can charge for at the top.

So it is trying to find the 10 best results on the internet for X, Y, Z keyword in order so that it can charge the most money for the. For the ads that are above it and okay, not every keyword has ads, but you know what? The algorithm still works the same regardless of whether there’s ads displaying at the top or not.

The purpose is to help Google charge money for ads. And because of that, you know, look, we’ve all had emails that are like, I’ll get you number one in Google or clients that say, I want to be number one for this. And I don’t think what they, what they appreciate necessarily is that in order for you to be number one, the guy that was in number one is now number two, the guy that was in number two is number three, all the way down to the guy, poor guy that was in number 10, who’s now in number 11 and is now on the next page, especially if an old school WordPress where you had to click through to page two, uh, but he’s now just below some more ads, but that’s, you know, that’s.

That’s the reality. It is a game of displacement and that game of displacement is then contextual with the players that are playing the game, not by, well, oh, well, if we, if we do this with this stack, then, then yeah, that will definitely get you to number one, but it doesn’t work like that. If you’re the example we were talking about was if you’re trying to sell.

Trainers and you’re going up against Nike, then you’re going to need like the world’s best website to go up against Nike because it’s Nike and they have the authority and they have the content and they have the backlinks and they have the server power and they have the budget to pay for all of that.

But if you’re like a local plumber in your local area and there’s only eight other local plumbers. Right. Well, you don’t need Nike level of website for that. You just need local plumber level of website. And that’s no disrespect to local plumbers. It’s just the, the game is different. The displacement is different.

Yeah. If

there’s only eight of them in one town, that’s only eight people you need to beat. Or seven, I guess, technically, if you’re one of them. But yeah, so, it’s, and not even to say, like, that you have to be lazy or that you can be lazy about it. But I guess you could technically, because you only need to do enough to get me above them.

And I’m not, you know what I mean? I’m not trying to say that’s the ideal, but technically speaking, that’s all you have to do, which is a

lot less than Nike. Absolutely. It’s a lot less than Nike, but then, you know, likewise, there will be, look, we, we work in an industry where a lot of people rely on a lot of plugins and I’m not going to bash anybody.

For the way that they build websites. That’s not the purpose of this episode at all, but it’s, you know, the reality is that there are some tools that are a bit more entry level. And if you are using those to, to build local plumber websites, local electrician websites, websites, where there’s low levels of competition, they will be absolutely fine.

You know, and you can, you can use them, uh, safe in the knowledge that, that the website is going to be able to perform to the level it needs to perform to. However, if you take those same tools and then try and build the Nike basher, it isn’t going to work. You’re going to hit the limitation of the tools before you get to any form of kind of meaningful ranking.

And there’s going to be no plugin that you’re going to be able to put into it to improve, improve that. You’re not going to be able to go and whack it on a bigger host and improve all of that. Yes. These things will help. But, you know, you’re only going to be as good as your weakest element and. It’s really that understanding that there’s certain tools for certain jobs and you need to understand the job that this particular website is doing, because at the end of the day, the client has come to you as the web professional.

So you need to make sure that whatever you delivered to them has the possibility of ranking meaningfully. Otherwise it’s not a suitable tool for the suitable job.

This is almost feels like a segue, but I think it’s, it’s still in the same kind of, kind of zone here. You’ve mentioned. Like those emails that we’ve got, we get them all the time.

You know, we get them as agency owners, our clients get them. It’s like, I can get you to the top of Google. Well, maybe they can’t, maybe they can’t. But what I love is how frequently these folks. And bigger than just to spam emails to I mean, there’s agencies and freelancers and SEO professionals all over town, all over the world to do this.

And they, you know, I get you to top, well, get you get you to the top for what, get you to the top for our ideal keyword or get get us to the top for a semi related keyword that actually doesn’t get us any traffic. And I bring this up because we just, you know, we’ve talked about this, we Just had, uh, a situation, a new client we onboarded semi recently, and they had an SEO person and when they were let go, you know, when they signed over with us, they kind of said, Oh, well, you know, we, we, we, you know, we got you these many, you know, this much increase in rankings, excuse me, my words aren’t coming out very well today, but you know, we did this, we did that, we got you all these improved rankings and you know, we all kind of, including meeting with our client, we looked and went.

What are they talking about? Because all the data we’ve looked at was you’re not ranking very well for any of these things. And so we dug a little deeper and I will admit, I will give them credit. They did get them a lot of relatively high level rankings for keywords that had like certain volume of 100.

versus like 10, 000. So it was like, great. We’re number one. We’ve displaced those four websites that also aren’t ranking for anything that people are actually searching for. And it was just like, ah, it’s, it’s so easy to kind of pad the numbers or, you know, make the report look so impressive when in reality, They weren’t really doing much of anything at all.

Yeah. And, and, and, you know, and that’s it. And, you know, SEO is a, is a process of picking your bottles and building things on a, building things layer at a time, you know, not trying to overstretch. Cause ultimately, you know, if you’ve got a website that’s currently only ranking for those smaller keywords and you instantly want to go after one of the big ones, then, you know, you’re really going to struggle.

In fact, you’re probably not going to get there, but actually, if you, if that’s your goal and you layer things up so that you build the layers of authority and content and linking, et cetera, et cetera, so on and so forth. Absolutely. That’s achievable. It’s going to take some time and some work, but it’s absolutely achievable.

Uh, but it, it all comes down, like we said, that’s, that’s why displacement is the, is. The, the topic or the title that we chose for this episode, because it is all contextual to the people that you need to displace. So what that means for you as the agency or you as the web professional that’s building these websites is before you start.

Or as part of your discovery process, I don’t know whether you have a, you know, whether you have like a project plan that you put in place, whether you have a suite of tools that you might be able to use that you can actually look at and say, right, well, you know what, this might be the best tool for, for this job, whereas that might be the best tool for something else, but you need to, you need to be considering what the competition levels are.

Before you start the design and build process, you know, regardless of whether you’re designing in the browser or not, that’s, that’s entirely up to you, but you need to be considering this stuff. Cause just diving straight in and saying, Hey, I’ve got a new client. So yeah, I’m going to build them a website.

Great. stack over your cum, you might be completely missing the mark.

Yeah. If you didn’t put any research to it, I mean, you set up, if you just, I mean, let’s just say you just pick your keyword out of the blue, right? The number one thing that you want that site to be known for or whatnot, you just pick out of the blue.

Well, if you didn’t do any of that research, you didn’t find out how competitive that keyword is. You didn’t find out what kind of results you could get from ranking for that keyword. I mean, maybe you’ll have success. Maybe you’ll have success in the wrong area.

The next thing I’m going to say, please don’t take this as me blowing our own trumpet, but I’m kind of going to blow our own trumpet.

Because one of the bits of feedback we got Not that long ago was how somebody was really impressed with our keyword research because it had a section in the keyword research that’s called keyword baseline. And there’s a, we have a blog on our website with a little video about how to use our keyword research.

We send it out with every piece of keyword research that we, that we sent. We’ll try and put a link to it in the show notes so that you can, you can go and see it. It’s not, you know, it’s not very long. The keyword baseline, what that does is it looks at the top. Any rankings you have in the top 20 for any keyword whatsoever and the keyword difficulty of those top 20 keywords, and then maps out where kind of the bulk of them is on the keyword difficulty sort of spectrum, it’s all grouped into sets of 5%.

But you know, if, if we know that the, this website is already ranking meaningfully in the top 20 for keywords with a difficulty of let’s say 20 to 25%, then it’s, it’s quite safe to know that by You know, we can relatively easily rank for other keywords with a similar difficulty, 25, 20, 25, maybe up to 30%.

But if you then instantly want to go and start ranking for keywords of like 60, 70, 80%, the website just isn’t operating yet at that level. So really the whole point of the keyword baseline is to, is to look at the current operation of a website and say, right, okay, from that level. This is what the low hanging fruit looks like.

So this is where we can start to easily demonstrate return back to the client. And once we build that confidence, we’re then building up those levels of difficulty so we can then start competing for more and more competitive keywords. And, you know, as we’re planning content into pillars and clusters and doing all the internal linking and all of that kind of stuff, we can have that plan in mind so that we know that Whilst this may not be the most competitive keyword, what we’re actually doing is building authority in the website, building up the layers of trust so that we can start to go for the more competitive words.

It’s not rocket science. It’s just not a sexy job to go and do.

It’s not sexy. It’s not sexy. Hey, I’m curious. What would you, what would you say, or what would you expect if, you know, all right, forget going towards our keyword baseline, but let’s, let’s do some content with much more difficult keywords. Or what’s going to happen?

Is it going to take longer? Is it going to, you know, is it penalized?

Oh, no, it’s not. It’s not penalized. You just won’t rank anywhere meaningfully, meaningfully for it. I mean, you know, they say that the best place to hide a body is page two of Google. So they do. They do. They really do. So what kind of circles do

you run in?

That’s probably not appropriate for this level of podcast. So, uh, I’d rather, I’d rather skim over that if, if it’s all the same with you. Sure, sure. Moving on.

But what’s that? Okay. All right. Sorry. Lawyer’s telling me

something, but no, they. You know, you, you can produce content for the, for the high, the more difficult level keyword and look, let’s, it just, you can’t expect anything from it.

It might not even appear in our reports. Our reports only track the top 100 results. Now that’s a lot of results. If you, if you’re not in it, our report will say you don’t, you don’t rank, but the reality is, you know, the percentage of traffic that goes beyond listing 101 is, is absolutely minuscule. You can’t base.

You can’t base any predictable traffic or, therefore, enquiries or sales on it. So, Look, if you are producing a brand new website and you, everything we’ve said so far is, is absolutely fine if you’ve got an existing website, clients come to you, you’d like to help you with SEO, you speak to SEO Hive and we produce these reports, right?

That’s how we get started. But if you’re producing a brand new website for somebody, and you don’t have any of this information, then actually the best place to start is to put in the pillar pages. So, so they are the pages that will eventually rank for these really competitive keywords, because by getting those in place first, whilst they may not rank meaningfully for anything, it gives you the pages to start building the internal links to.

If you don’t create those, then you kind of, you’re kind of linking to the cluster content underneath and You’ll never, ever go back and put the links into the right place. It’s just not going to happen over a course of a period of time. So it does make sense if you’re starting with a blank sheet to get those pages in place relatively quickly, knowing that they’re not going to rank meaningfully for a long time, but it’s giving you the infrastructure to build the content around it, it’s that other content that will rank first and then over time, drag those, those, uh, pillar page rankings up.

And, uh, you know, kind of one of the. One of the attitudes that I, I take with content too, is I go more content can rarely be hurtful. So the more the merrier and the more that you can support that, that pillar structure, you can introduce new keywords that that’s a great way to continue growing and expanding a website that’s, you know, whether that’s fresh or already has some of that baseline.

I mean, you don’t need to go. Do those super difficult ones, but you can keep expanding and kind of, you know, keep setting the foundations. I suppose would be the best way to look at it. And you know, over time, those solidify and over time, your baseline will grow. You’ll be able to get, go to higher difficulty keywords and get better rankings and it only took,

I don’t know, 15 years and a

million dollars, who knows, it depends, I mean, you know, sometimes it doesn’t take any time at all, other times it take years, but it’s yeah, so relative.

Well,

but I mean, we’re maybe moving a little way from the displacement thing here, but it’s, it’s It’s interesting to the, I don’t think a lot of people really understand how keywords are related together either, because the reality is that like all keywords are related, that they might be exceptionally distant, but they are, you know, like 5, 000 degrees of separation, but they are all related.

You know, we, you have to think back to a time when WWW, where everybody had that in their email, in their web address, because it stood for worldwide web, everything was linked together. And that’s. It’s exactly the same with keywords. And I was. I was talking with a client the other day. I have no idea whether this metaphor is going to be helpful or not, but I’m going for it anyway, you know, in for a penny, in for a pound.

And the metaphor that really helped them was they said, Oh, so, so keywords are all like, it’s a bit like all keywords are laid out on a sheet. And if you want, you have your target keyword, your, your particular keyword or keywords that you want to rank for. And if you imagine you kind of pinch the sheet at that point and lift it up, You know, that’s what I want to rank for, but actually what happens is all those other keywords that are very close to it around it, they all start to lift up to form the peak that you’re kind of pinching at the top and they’re the related, you know, anything that’s now lifted off the ground ever so slightly, they’re the relations, they’re the, they become form the cluster content.

And, you know, so whilst your keyword about training shoes is on the same sheet as dental practices, the reality is when you pick up training shoes, dental practices doesn’t move, but they are, it is all on the same sheet. And it’s those ones that move that you need to, you need to create into your cluster content.

And it’s by doing keyword research that you understand. So what are the pillars and what are the clusters that you need? Because when you move one, guess what? You’re supporting the ranking for another. I don’t know if that’s helpful to anybody, but that’s. It was helpful to a client. I was on call with 10 days ago.

So, and

that is a very random metaphor, but actually I can visualize it perfectly. And so I think it’s great. I’m like, actually, I see exactly what he’s talking about there. It’s a great way to look at it, kind of

visualize it. So was that better or worse than the hiding a body metaphor? No, let’s not go there.

Yeah.

When I go back there, I told him to stop. I told him he’s going to stop. You’re lawyers, man. You’re lawyers are yelling at me. Quit it. Stop it. No, but you know, okay. So kind of circling back to the big displacement word that we’re highlighting today and it’s something else that we see sometimes is the fall of, I can’t even say this word volatility, volatility,

Of, of rankings and, you know. When you’ve got the, when you’ve done the work and you’re pretty solid at the top, you generally feel pretty stable, but kind of in that 5 to 15, you know, range, I usually, I see a lot of times people go from 7 to 6 that week, and then maybe down to 8 and then back to 7, but then.

Maybe up to five. And now, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s this, right? It goes up and down, up and down, just one or two here and there. And you know, sometimes, especially with like a brand new client, we’ll, you know, we’ll have five, you know, really ideal keywords going up. And then one goes down. Oh, why’d that go down?

And it’s like, well, cause somebody else. in your, you know, niche or area or whatnot displaced you for that keyword. I mean, it’s, it’s pretty much as simple as that. So did they do more? Did, are they, did it have more content about that keyword? Maybe is their website loading faster on the page that has that keyword?

Maybe. I mean, there’s so many different things, but that’s really what happened is they displaced that site by this little tiny bit and, you know, we’ll see what happens next week. But then at the same time, the work and effort you’ve put into the, you know, Keywords that are maybe more target or closer to your baseline or whatnot.

You know, those have solidified that foundation and you’ve raised, or you’ve raised, you know, 10 spots in other areas. So, you know, some things go up, sometimes they go down, but you know, the overall trends are what’s big, what’s mainly important. And of course, the, you know, ideal target keywords

you focus on.

Absolutely. And you know what? Those, those, those pages that have displaced you, particularly if you were, as you say, you, let’s say you’re in position six and then a few days later, you’re in P8, those other two that have come in, you know, are they brand new pages on the internet because they might just be going through the indexing process, essentially.

The Google dance and you know what, they just jumped ahead of you for a couple of days as part of Google’s kind of crawl of them to understand where they, those new pages need to filter into the results. And then, Hey, presto, 48 hours later, they’re back in P13, 14, and that’s kind of where they settle. And it’s launching and.

Launching and getting content out onto the internet isn’t, isn’t an easy process in the sense that, you know, Google doesn’t just crawl a page and say, oh yeah, that goes in there. Instead, it goes, every piece of content essentially goes through the Google dance. The Google dance is something that We typically only relate to when you launch new websites, because of course you’re basically doing this thing with an entire website, but actually the process, the same process happens even if you just release a blog post.

Um, and unless you’re getting it into one of the other verticals on, uh, on the SERPs, like, I don’t know, the news section or whatever, then, um, Then the actual, you know, actually that page will bounce around a little bit and eventually settle into its place. And when it’s settled into its place, you’ll know if you need to do more optimization work, whether it needs more content, whether it needs better structure, whether it needs more internal links, whatever it might be.

But you need to wait for it to actually get its initial index done first. Yep,

and be sure to tell your client that because they will tell you the day after your website launches that they just googled it and didn’t find it.

Oh, tell me about it. And then you say, well, the Google dance mail list lasts between 10 days and two weeks.

And it’s like, what? It’s going to be like this for two weeks. We can’t, we can’t not have our website in for two weeks. I’m like, no, no, it’ll bounce around for, oh, but there must be something you can do. You wanted the new website. We’ve all been through it. It’s just, just the way it goes. Uh, you know, there is no, there is no email address that we can email like new website at google.

com and say, Hey, we’re just launching a website for so and so. It would be really nice if you could just index them in position one. Yeah. That’d be amazing. Well,

I mean, there, there kind of is, and we generally do it, but it doesn’t exactly work that way. I mean, you know what I mean? You go to search console, you’d submit everything.

You go, here we are. We’re here. And it still doesn’t show up for a couple of weeks, but, you know, at the same time, I will say, you know, we’re kind of, we’re kind of joking and, you know, picking on the time it takes and stuff when it comes to local SEO, local businesses and the map pack and stuff, boy, do I see those things populate quickly?

And, and start index quickly and which is a great, a great thing. I mean, you know, because it’s, it’s, there are different ways to look at it, right? Because you can, anybody can launch a website, you know, anybody can just put a website up there and say it’s this and, you know, put a bunch of keywords on there and try to rank and, and overtake other people.

But when it comes to like local businesses and, you know, The business profile has to be verified. So that’s one big thing to kind of prevent them from, you know, you can’t just go make a new business location and try to outrank somebody if it doesn’t exist, right? You have to have a real business. It has to have a real brick and mortar place.

And I mean, sometimes we see those things get submitted and boom, in the areas, people are looking for their plumber and they’re already coming up. I mean, again, it’s displacement. They’re not There isn’t a lot there that they have to compete against, but that indexing and that stuff when it comes to that kind of specific localities and things like that seems to happen a lot faster than what we’re used to, you know, for the last 20 plus years, you know, we’ve launched websites for decades now and it’s like, yeah, how long until we can actually find them?

It’s going to take, uh, you know, it’s going to take a while, but, um, in a lot of cases it’s, it’s, it’s improving in that area. So it’s cool.

In bringing this episode into LAM, then, let’s, here’s just something that I think a lot of people miss when they actually are launching content for clients. So, if you’re trying to combat this thing, and you’re, you wanna get, you know, you launch blog posts or whatever the content might be, new pillar pages, whatever it is, you’re trying to get that stuff into the SERPs.

Please, I do one of these two things, right? The, the, the easiest thing to do is to go and submit it manually to search console. But if you’ve got a website that’s generating a lot of traffic, are you, you, you know, it, it’s quite an annoying process to have to go and do, cause it takes like two, three minutes to crawl every time you hit submit a URL.

So you’re just sitting there waiting. You can’t close the browser. So either do that, which is far better than doing nothing, or as part of your live process, set up instant indexing and do that through your plugin of choice. We set it up through SEO press pro it’s, it’s a little bit of a faff. You have to go and set a user up with an API key in the Google dev console for each website.

So it’s, it’s, it’s not complicated. You can do it in less than five minutes, but it isn’t just like being when you’re in the SEO press thing, you want to do Bing, you like hit a button. It generates an API key and you’re done. It’s not like that, but you, uh, you. It is worth the effort. And what that will do then is every time you publish a new piece of content, you are actively submitting that URL over to search console for indexing.

It’s instant indexing. And, uh, that really is the best way you can spoon feed Google to try and get your new content into those SERPs as fast as you possibly can, that and building some internal links, which nobody ever does.

Do you just got to clarify that’s not guaranteed. It’s not automatic. But it is like you said the fastest way to spoon feed it to Google put it on the silver platter make it easy for For sir Google, you know, here you go.

Please. Here’s

this

fillet Please please please. Here you go. It’s very enticing. We made it easy for you

So, hey I said fillet in your dog box,

I know right yeah, he’s hungry now he’s hungry

So I realized this episodes been a bit of like The meanderings of the foothills of our minds about Google and displacement and SEO tools and all of that.

But hopefully people have gleaned a bit of something off this, that, you know, it is a bit contextual, please do a bit of research upfront, understand what it is you’re playing with to begin with, before you start making those decisions. And then make sure that you’re, you’re getting stuff into Google, spoon feeding Google to try and overcome it.

I think that’s really.

Yeah, I mean, it’s a relatively simple concept, but we get caught up in all the, you know, in all the nuts and bolts of things. And, and SEO itself is extremely overwhelming for most people. Like I completely get it. So if anything, I feel like this topic should actually kind of relieve some of that pressure and stress and just make you realize that it’s, you know, Oh, Yes, I want to, I want to shoot for a hundred percent all the time, but if you don’t, you know what I mean?

What’s that? What’s that metaphor shoot for the moon? And if you, if you miss it, you know, you’re still among the stars or I don’t know something cheesy like that. But I Saw one the other day. I was like shoot for the moon. So if you miss at least you’re off this dang planet But anyway, you know what I’m saying?

I’m you know at the end of the day You don’t have to stress about every little detail you just stress about the important ones are actually making a difference and a lot of times You know, fighting over those one or two little points here and there is not where your efforts

need to be. Absolutely. And if you’re stuck with any of this, we offer strategy sessions.

So please just book in for a strategy session. We’ll ask, we’ll give you a quick form so that we get a bit of context about what it is that you’re wanting to, uh, you wanted some help about before that, before we chat. And then, uh, yeah, we’ll, we’ll happily put a plan together with you. It’s not a problem.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. Well, with that, I think, I think that’s a wrap for this week. Yeah, absolutely. I think we’ll be back next week. I think we’re both feeling better finally. It’s been, uh, it’s been quite the last month or so. It has

indeed. So uh, yeah. Well, look, if we don’t see you. If we don’t see you in our list or in our email or in a strategy sessions, we’ll see you in the next show.