Episode #: 026
Hosts / Guest(s): Pete & Jeff

Show Notes

Main talking points include:

  • Setting Expectations and Discovery Process
  • Managing Client Relationships
  • Scaling Services
  • Client Communication
  • Handling Large Clients
  • Financial Impact of Client Loss
  • Client Lifecycle


Hello and welcome to this episode of the WPSEO show. My name is Pete and I’m your co host joined by my brother from another mother, Mr. Jeffrey Patch all the way from California. How’d you go? Hey, that rhymed. Hey, you, you know, Pete, you really could have had a career as a hip hop writer. You really could have.

If you ever want to rethink your life, I think you could probably write, I don’t know if you can rap. I have no idea, but I think you could write some hits. I can’t rap. As the kids would say. I can’t rap, but if you want to know a little bit of Pete Everett trivia, I have won a national award, a UK award for writing a song.

I didn’t know this. Check that out. I was 14 at the time ish, and it was coming up to the millennium. And I was a GCSE music student. And, uh, yeah, one of our bits of coursework was to enter a competition for a national song or it was a national album for. Songs written by students, school students that was released for the year 2000.

And I got. I, I got into the last, whatever the last round was, I didn’t get onto the CD, but then there was a whole thing about basically the schools that were on the CD needed to be sleeping with somebody that was making the CD and it was all a bit kind of corrupt. But yeah, this got, this got dark. Not the students, I hasten to add, just the, uh, just, just the teachers.

Uh, so. Look forward to the Netflix docuseries. But yeah, I, I won, I won a national award for writing a song. I was in the last round. Well, I think we’re going to need to get producer Jerry to find the recordings of this and link to it in our show notes All right, you tell producer Jerry you’re he’s your identical twin, isn’t he the evil one

Really questioning that that that is that is pretty impressive. That is very that is very cool. That’s uh, That’s more impressive than my story. I can actually play the drums and the guitars that are behind me, but I, you know, I never do, but in public, but I, I can do it. Yeah. There’s a layer of dust on those guitars behind me.

Let me tell you right now. We, uh, last night, I’m speaking about hip hop. Last night we were at a restaurant for my daughter’s 17th birthday and they were doing karaoke and my wife and her both got up and did it, which is like, not, not, they like to sing and stuff, but they’re not very big. You know, show people, they don’t want people looking at and watching them do karaoke.

So I was going to break the ice and do, uh, Baby Got Back by Sir Mix a Lot, but my wife said that would not be appropriate. So I didn’t do it, but I could, and it would have been really fun. Well, and for the, for the hundredth episode show, we’re going to have a rendition of Baby Got Back by Mr. JP. Deal. I will commit to it now.

We’ll just have, what? 75 more to go or something like that. That’ll do, that’ll do. So today we’re talking all about client expectations. And I think this, this has come, basically, as you know, a lot of these episodes that we, that we record come up from discussions that we genuinely have in our weekly team, team meetings.

And as, as we’re going through them, we think, Hey, yeah, this, this, this could work as a podcast episode. And this is exactly one of those, uh, scenarios. Basically, from our experience with working with the client sites that we do through SEO Hive, we generally find that there’s only two or three different sort of levels of client involvement.

One is, At one end of the spectrum, you’ve got clients that pay their agencies, the bill to, to open quotes, do SEO. And they don’t really mess with the process. They’re not, they want to know that it’s working. Of course they do. They want to see that their sales are increasing or that the traffic’s increasing or whatever it is.

But as long as you tick that box, they generally sort of leave you alone to get on with, uh, Whatever it is you’re trying to do, and then you’ve got people right on the other end of the spectrum that want to be involved in every little thing. And, uh, you know, trying to dot I’s and cross T’s and, uh, jumping in and doing their own stuff and kind of almost trying to drag you astray a little bit from your process, because I guess they’re kind of thinking, well, More is more.

So I want more. So let’s do more. I’m paraphrasing that bit, but we just thought that this would be quite a cool thing to chat about on the show and to, to literally talk about, you know, how to set some of those expectations. And I know Jeff, you’ve got. Experience of this right from before SEO hive and you’d like back into your agency life through your maintain press stuff and that kind of stuff as well.

So it kind of sort of was a good sit. Yeah. And, you know, I feel like, like myself and the team are kind of uniquely positioned to witness this stuff, right. In a very interesting way, because, you know, we have. You know, scope and agreements and things that we make with our agency partners. And of course, there’s things that we agree to when we have a direct client as well, we, but we can’t necessarily shape them if that makes any sense, because they’re already in existence, they’ve already got their website, they’ve already been sold all that stuff.

And, and so, and we’ll see things from. Like you mentioned, ones that they’ve never logged in, you know, we’ll, we’ll, you can check the logs and they haven’t logged in in five years, you know, but they were adamant about getting admin login and being able to manage your website themselves. And that’s fine because they’ve got the team and they, you know, I mean, they put the request in, they say, Hey, you know, here’s our blog post or the rest of your team’s handling it.

And that’s. That’s all great. And then we have the other ones and they’re maybe a little more DIY. And, and I don’t say that in a bad way because that’s me. Like I’m describing the type of client I would be if I was not a web professional, you know, I would be that one that’s logging going, Hey, look at this schema.

What is that? Well, you know, and, and sometimes, you know, as the agency person, you kind of go, uh, you don’t need to be messing with that, please get out of there. Or let me, let me adjust you down to the editor role here, which I just had to do earlier this morning when. Somebody, you know, told me some things, but you’re getting some restrictions now, but at the same time, you know, these are also.

You, things you can’t be proactive about as the agency, right? Like when you’re, when you’re building the website, you can kind of, or selling it, right? Or negotiating it, designing it with the client, whatever it is you’re doing. You can kind of put the feelers out and get an idea for what type of client is this?

What do they want? What do they expect? And are they, I mean, as politely as possible, are they going to get in our way? You know, like that happens so often. And they have every right to, but at the same time, they’re slowing the process down or, or worse at times too. And really you’ve got to hit that balance, haven’t you?

Between, between how much you are prepared to educate a client in order to do it, the open quotes right way versus how much you just let them get on with their thing, knowing that it’s not going to impact too much with your thing until it does impact with your thing. But that’s a, that’s a different story.

And, uh, you know, and you just, you just let them do, yeah, as I say, go and get on with their own thing. And I think this is where having some form of discovery process up front, particularly when it comes to SEO, um, but having some kind of discovery process up front, actually putting together a schedule of work, having a regular like inventory of, of tactics that are going to be delivered as a minimum, that that’s, they’re, they’re great things to put in place to help you have that infrastructure to actually set those expectations right from the outset.

Yeah. And it’s, you know, it’s kind of hard to get a reading on these until you start having these conversations and, you know, whether you’re scoping for, you know, what does this client want? What do they need? Or you’re just scoping on how are we going to be able to work with them? It, it takes some conversations or working with them for a while to kind of start realizing the, the good or the bad, or just maybe trying to figure out how to communicate with them.

How, what do they need to hear? What do they need to be told? What do they need to be asked frequently to keep eye on the ball? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I mean, do you want to, do you want to go into some of the, some of the, the examples we were talking about before we, before we hit go on this or?

Well, I mean, examples of what I was like, I was venting about some things, so be careful what you’re opening the door to here. Hey, right. Let me start. Let me start then. So one, one thing that we have noticed is. Let me rephrase this. So one thing that we, we have noticed, I’m going to start exactly the same way.

We work with a lot of agencies and we work with a lot of people that are, let’s say, starting delivering. Recurring services, which is absolutely great building recurring services into your agency model is, is absolutely essential for getting out of that feast famine cycle, I get it. The, the problem that certain agencies face is that when they are starting and they only have a handful of clients, let’s say a small number of clients on a, uh, uh, on a retained model is that they like over service those clients.

Probably a hundred times more work than they should be doing. Then they’re being paid for doing, and that’s because they’ve got a lot of time to, to dedicate to these things. You know, if they’re not doing some project work, then yeah. Okay. We will dedicate the rest of the time over to these recurring clients.

The problem with that is if you then. You need, you need to figure out how many clients that you, you recurring clients, you’re going to, you’re going to take on. So yeah, you can’t scale that. Yeah, absolutely. That’s the point. Works great. The beginning days. Yeah. And the clients think you’re brilliant and you know, you’re always at the end of the phone and you’re always, you’re over servicing, you’re over delivering your, yeah, they really feel loved.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t love your clients by what any stretch of the imagination, but on the same note, the expectation needs to be set that actually, you know, My agency needs to serve, let’s say 25 recurring clients. So when you’ve sold the first one, they should stick your, your process should still be like one 25th of your time.

If you see what I mean, don’t go giving the first client a hundred percent of the time, because then when you get the second client, you can only give them 50 percent of the time. And when you get the third client, you’re going to give them a third of the time. And all of a sudden you get these clients that you were like completely head over heels for you in the beginning, thinking.

Well, hang on. I’ve not heard from Pete or Jeff in ages, but, and, you know, I used to hear from them every day and all of a sudden you seem like the bad guy, even though you’re just now being guy, if you see what I mean. Yep. And I, you know, I don’t think I realized until this moment that I’ve been in that exact situation.

I’ve been guilty of that. And it was, you know, you, well, first of all, backtrack a little bit, you mentioned what, you know, some, some of the people we work with, they’re getting their first recurring. Service client, right? Their first SEO retainer or maintenance or whatever. And that’s freaking fantastic. Oh, yeah One of them might not make the huge dent in your bottom line, you know, it might not change your financial picture or whatever, but it only took, I think, uh, I think lucky number 13 direct like care plan clients that I was working with before I said, Hey, I can leave my, my job that I had at the time way back when, and then the next month I lost my job out of nowhere.

Like they decided that it was the whole project I was working on for two decades was shutting down and everybody was just gone. And it was like, Wow, I’m I glad I had that one client a year ago. Now I’m at 13 and now, you know, I mean, it’s not great. It sucks to lose all that money, but it’s stability. So we were, we were stable and I had 13 and it was fine.

It wasn’t a huge, you know, endeavor or whatever, but I did spend a lot of time working with all of them and showing off and making sure that they saw the value and getting them results in whatever capacity we could. And I, I’ve definitely lost by half of those. And I think that was because over this is like Seven years ago, obviously you’re going to lose some, but I still have a handful of them, which is good, but some of them that left, I remember having that conversation or them telling me that going, Hey, it doesn’t seem like you are as invested in us as you were two years ago.

And it’s, they’re, they’re right. You know, I mean, to be honest, they’re told they were totally right, but at the same time, the 13 wasn’t too much to handle. It was too much to handle. In the capacity I was providing because now we’re, you know, over a hundred, multiple hundreds of clients and can handle them just fine.

So it’s all about the expectations and you know what I mean? Setting the boundaries and none of them were upset. It was just that they needed a different level of service and really what they were getting for their probably. Two or 300 a month was insane value. And you know, it just, it wasn’t sustainable on both sides.

So that’s a big thing that when you’re working with them at the beginning, you’ve got to look at that because like I mentioned, or, you know, going on what you were saying, it’s not scalable. It’s just not. No. And you know what? Great. The counter argument to that is to then say, okay, well, I’m going to go and get like clients that are going to pay me 15 grand retainers, 15 grand a month retainers.

Well, that’s kind of not scalable either. You know, cause you, you, you flipped the other way we had a, the, the last agency I worked in, we had a client that paid us 14, 000 pounds a month and they wanted the earth and you know, nothing was ever. Nothing. You could never say no to them. That was, that was kind of, that was really the crux of the issue we had with them.

Whatever they said, the answer was yes, Mr. Cooper. And, uh, it. They were such a massive chunk of our recurring revenue that we felt like we had to roll the red carpet out every time they walked through the door. We, we couldn’t say no, we had to, I mean, the, the, the deliverables they wanted were insane, and if they didn’t move the needle like yesterday, then they complained about it.

We had staff member after staff member, after staff member working on their account, it screwed up our project work because literally, you know, Mr. Cooper’s asked for this. So yoink, I’m taking three staff out for the next four days. And it was, you know, so clients can be too big as well, you know, we, that, that agency had a staff of about 26 people at the time.

So it, you know, it was, it was a larger organization, but yeah, if you’re, particularly if you’re on your own, or there’s you and some, some remote support, client support. Maybe too big if they’re not gonna exactly fit into what it is You can you can provide in a way that you’re you’re able to provide it.

So, um, yeah There’s this sort of you need to have alarm bells levels of this. I think that’s ultimately where people struggle. Yeah. And you know, I mean, I think generally speaking, right, everybody that we work with and have met through our trials and tribulations in this industry, I think they all mean well, you know, I mean, everybody wants to make money.

Some people want, maybe focus on that a little bit more above other things like client satisfaction, but that, you know, we’re all here to earn, earn an income and, you know, Provide for ourselves or our families. And I don’t feel that, you know, for any, for any, you know, substantial amount that like we deal with people who are malicious about that.

It’s just is what it is. So at that stage, you know, I’m sorry, not that stage, but you see so often at the beginning, they’re just doing everything they can to try to. Show that value. Try to make their client happy, which obviously we wanna do that, we need to do that. But like , there’s, there’s a boundary.

You know, you’ve gotta set those boundaries ’cause it’s not sustainable and like what you mentioned, I’m just sweating over here thinking about putting all the things in place, right? A 15, would you say 15 grand a month or 1314 grand. 14. It was 14,000 pounds a month. So that’d be about 16 and half thousand dollars.

See that? That’s get up. I’ll be honest, I’ve never had a retainer like that. You know, just like, it’s hard for me to relate. But if I did, I could only imagine that that would be, that would require staffing. It would require certain costs and deliverables. It’s not just, you know, a couple hours of my consultancy that I’ve got a schedule in my diary.

It is. It, it literally was, it literally was like we became their internal team. And the, the problem was that it was for a national, uh, IT company was the client and they, they knew how to run departments. And that was kind of the problem. They, they took us on as if we were their marketing department. And, you know, if we’re an internal marketing department, you click your fingers, somebody says, jump, you say how high, and they were expecting the same from us and from a.

Because we weren’t actually that, we were an external agency, we’re an external business. We had priorities, we had projects to go through, we had, you know, we could never say this to them, but we had other clients. So we couldn’t set that expectation of, look, so this is what you get. This is how long it’s going to take us to respond.

This is, this is, you know, kind of that don’t sweat it. We got it. We couldn’t have that discussion with them because they were too big and they were simply paying us too much money. And of course, all you need them to do is not pay a bill and you’ve put a whole load of work in and now you’ve done it for free.

So, you know, it just wasn’t, It wasn’t a good place to be. So clients can be too big. It’s it’s one thing to like we said, we can’t you can’t scale that very easily. But it’s another thing to also realize that a whale client like that, and it’s a whole nother conversation, probably. But when they go, you’ve now got an excess amount of Yeah, team members or cost or whatever it is that were dedicated to them.

And now when you believe them, yeah, believe me, if you lose a client like that, You feel it in the pocket devastating, very quickly. So, you know, I’ve, I’m really kind of fortunate that with my, the way my agency is set up, um, it’s the same with SEO Hive, but with my agent, the way my agency set up, no client is responsible for more than like two, maybe 3 percent of my turnover max.

And, you know, so if we lose a client, yeah, nobody likes to lose a client. We, you know, we had, we had a client leave, uh, literally today because, They’ve been with us for years and they’re, you know, we’ve demonstrated the value to them. We’ve demonstrated the process and their internal team wants to take it on.

Clients leave, you know, we, that’s the, that’s the reality of it. You can’t, even when things have gone really, really well, client, almost every client has a shelf life of some, you know, some duration, you hope it’s as long as possible, but. That’s just the way it goes. But yeah, if they’re not controlling more than a couple of percent of your turnover, it’s never nice to see them go, but it happens and you know what?

You, you don’t lose any sleep over it and you wake up the next day and you go find the next one, but it’s. Uh, yeah, that, that was a big lesson that was learned. And, and we see that in people taking it on internally, you know, You just gotta go, all right, well, good luck. And we’re here if you need us again, which you might, you know, selfishly, I hope you do, but at the same time, I also hope that you have a, you know, have a plan in place, it’s going to be profitable, profitable for your business and successful.

And, you know, I mean, we’re, we’re as big of fans of everybody we work with as we are suppliers, you know, I mean, we want. To see success amongst everybody. And I think, I think that’s safe to say for most of the people we work with feel that way about their clients. You know, it’s, there’s nothing better. The only thing better than seeing their success is getting paid for it.

I guess. Right. Like, I mean, although you, you, you do make a very good point with that, which is that. Everything we’ve said, the really comes down to in the early days, being able to demonstrate some results. You need to build that level of trust with each client that says, yeah, we have this. We know what we’re doing.

You can trust us with it. And look, here’s the initial set of results. And from here, we’re going to build and build and build. And there you go. And that ultimately comes down to firstly, you being confident. In what you’re, what you’re doing or having the right team around you who are confident in what they’re doing so that, you know, that you can deliver relatively, you know, something relatively quickly for a client.

And then the second thing is. Almost identifying those low hanging fruit. I hate that phrase, but identifying the low hanging fruit. And that would be the same as to whether it was a maintenance client. You know, you know, we, we onboarded the site, we found these issues and look, we’ve gone and cleaned them up and here we are.

And now we’re going to apply our, you know, whatever it is, our caching process or our speed process or whatever you want to call it. And then off you go, or from an SEO point of view, whether you say, look, you know, These we’ve, we’ve done this site cleanup, we’ve improved your health from X to Y. And, uh, you know, this is your keyword research and the next things we’re going to do are X, are these things.

And, or, you know, don’t go and choose keywords that are the most competitive ones on the, uh, on the keyword research as your first, the first things you work on, go and choose some that are a bit easier because then you can demonstrate the results of the client quicker and build that level of trust. So, um, yeah, it’s, I think it works on both.

Both sides, but that’s, that’s how, uh, if you’re not set up that way, if you haven’t thought that stuff through, you can, again, you can trip yourself up dead easy with that. Yep. And you know, we’ve, like I said, we’ve, we’ve discussed that we’ve both been in these situations. We’ve seen them, we’ve witnessed them.

We’ve, we’ve talked about them with our colleagues and, you know, people in our network. I mean, this, this topic, similar topic was just up. In the admin bar. Hey, there’s a shout out for the episode the other day, you know, and people were discussing about page builders and WordPress editors and stuff. And we’re not going to get into all that right now.

The topic for another day, but I kind of had to go in there and go, you guys, I need you to really understand something. It doesn’t matter. The vast majority of clients don’t want to get their hands dirty in there. No matter what they say, no matter what they do, no matter what they might imply, you know, and again, that’s, That’s something you really don’t understand until you start work with them or you’re having those conversations, but I mean, I can tell you statistically speaking, the vast majority are, they just, they never want to log in.

And even if they say they do, they’ve got other things that they should be focusing on. So that’s another thing. It’s always interesting, right? When you’ve got a business owner logging into the site and messing with stuff all the time, you’re like, why are you doing this? Why, what, what can you be doing with your time?

That would be more valuable. And I don’t, I shouldn’t be the one telling you that. It is. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you mentioned earlier about knocking, knocking, uh, uh, knocking users down to edit a level last week. I knocked some, some, uh, clients down to subscriber level. I’ve attempted to do that on a couple as well.

I am tempted. And you know, the funny thing is too, and I don’t, again, I feel like I’m talking trash about them, but they would log in and they’d be like, Oh, I can’t do anything. Oh, well. And they would move on to the next thing in their day, which is what they should do. You know? So. So, you know, really this, this all comes down to how you want to set the expectations, how you want to set the level of service that you’re going to have with clients, because, you know, and how much there, you know, if they go into a site and start doing their own stuff, how much that’s going to interfere with what you’re trying to achieve, you know, if you’re, if you’re running maintenance clients, then actually, you know, Clients going in there, posting content, updating images, whatever.

It’s not, it’s not, it’s not really going to cause you too much of an issue, but if they then go and find your caching settings and go and trash all of those, or they, you know, they go and find the CDN and break it or, or whatever it might be, you, they, they can cause you a real problem. Pain in the neck, particularly if you spent time and effort going and setting those things up in the first place, just as they can with, you know, uh, with SEO stuff.

If they want to go and post their own posts every now and then that’s absolutely not a problem, but they go and put a whole lot of images in there that are far too big. They go and build links to dead pages. They’re going to mess up all your schema data. Um, it’s, you know, all of a sudden you’ve got to redo some work, which is a Royal pain in the rear.

Yeah. And I’m, I’m of the attitudes like, Hey, it’s your site. You own it. Like, I want you to feel enabled to do that. But also if you’re paying me to get you success, understand when I tell you to stop doing that, or you know what I mean. Well, yeah, you know, this is, oh, I feel like I’m getting on my soapbox again.

But we have had the discussion before about how you should be the web professional in this, in this. relationship in this setup. And, you know, I don’t go to the mechanic and tell him how to do his job. I don’t go to the house builder and tell him how to build a house. Don’t come to me as the web professional and tell me how to run your website.

It’s, you know, if, if this, this is the scope of work, this is what we’re trying to achieve. These are the initial results we’ve got. We’re on the trajectory and we’re checking in with that every so often. Yep. Fine. Leave me to get on with my job. Yep. And, and Hey, if the client wants to post their own blogs or something, right.

They, they feel like they want to share content. I look at that as it’s only going to be a positive if as long as they’re not, you know, saying anything negative or whatever, they’re more content is never going to be benefit or detrimental. It’s just maybe not going to give them extra results. So you know, okay, no big deal.

But maybe you just have to have that conversation and explain that with them. It’s like, hey, Talk about the stuff that’s happening inside your business. Talk about the community events. Who cares if you’re trying to rank for them, they’re good for your readers. They’re good for your customers. That’s all good stuff that people do want to hear and read from their supplier or not supplier, but the companies that they favor.

Not every post has to be SEO optimized. Not every post has to be targeting a keyword. Not everything on the website has to be doing that. There’s still so much that your website can do for you from a marketing standpoint. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you’re dead right. Go and do the things that we as an external supplier can’t do for you.

Go and go and make the content about the office dog and the stuff that’s going to help you recruit staff by sharing what it’s like to work it work for you. Go and write your case studies because we don’t know who all your clients are and we’re not going to go and reach out to them and actually get a testimonial from them together.

Go and do all that good stuff because that’s the bit that. We can’t do. Yeah. But leave us to do the bits that you’re paying us for.

We had a, we, we, random story, we got a whole list of like, hey, update all these images. Okay. You know, across the whole website. We went through there and they were already all updated ’cause the client took it upon themself. And, and I remember, you know, seeing that the team and I had a conversation, well, it took us so long and gee, Jeff, we did it in like 30 minutes after getting their request

Okay. All right. I give up, you know, they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do. You know, we had. Uh, I have a, an Arcaset client and, uh, I got a, I got a message from them and they said, uh, Hey, yeah, a lot of our images are broken on the website. Can you go and take a look? So I went and took a look and sure enough, there was images that weren’t loading.

And that was because the CDN wouldn’t handle images that were more than 20, 000 pixels. So some of them were 23, 000 pixels and some of them were only going into holes on the website that were like Maybe three or 400 pixels wide. So even if you retina that up, that’s like 800 pixels. So I’m like, I’m like, guys, you got to understand you are over the CDN limit by more than the actual size that the image needs to be.

Right. I don’t know. I don’t know how to say this to you. It needs to be eight, like eight to 1200 at certain, certain instances. They did have some that were like. You know, full width. So like two and a half thousand, but other than those, they don’t need to be any bigger than that. Oh yeah. But you know, surely the bigger they are, the more, the more quality there is.

No, the bigger they are, the bigger they are, the more CDN. That’s what happens. Yeah. So that’s a, you know, your soapbox, but I love the, uh, we got a lot of clients that DIY, a lot of their graphics and stuff, and they actually do a really good job with it and they use Canva, you know, I mean, great tools to enable, you know, You know, people to do things without subscribing to say, you know, Adobe illustrator or whatever, but they always export PNG files at like five megabytes.

And they’re only like 600 pixels wide. Just like, why are they so big? Tell me about it. Tell me about it. So, yeah, so, uh, the, the really funny thing with that, that story was I sent them all this information and like three weeks later they hit their limit on their WP engine storage. So we had to go through and resize all these like 20 megabyte images just to get them back under the limit.

It was funny. Yeah. Mm hmm. I’ve seen that with, uh, real estate is big because they upload so many high res shots of the properties and stuff. And next thing you know, they’ve got 10, 20 gigabytes of storage, which like is totally impossible to do, but at the same time, really hard to do on the website. Like, yeah.

It’s pretty, it’s pretty difficult, but you can do it, but, Oh, yeah. Well, look, long story short, clients are awesome, but sometimes you got to wrangle them and can’t live with them. Can’t live without them. This is, you know, I, I hope everybody watching or listening, you know, kind of enjoys picking up some things, learning from our experiences, hopefully laughing at some of our funny stories and stuff, but also, you know, Is kind of learning from our mistakes.

And you know what I mean? Like we, we, we kind of vent and joke a little bit about situations just cause we’ve been in this business for a number of years now, and it’s like, you have to just laugh sometimes, right? Like I, I love everybody I work with. I love everybody we work for, but sometimes you just kind of have to go.

Yeah, that happens. And we’re going to learn from it and we’ll tweak it. And next time it’ll be a little bit better or hopefully fix it completely. But other times you just have to just brush it off and just laugh about it. There is absolutely no judgment in these episodes at all. We’re only talking about them because we’ve been there, been there, done that, got the t shirt.

It is not judgmental. It is, you know, please take, please take our advice just so that you don’t have to make the same mistakes that we did. That’s kind of, that’s kind of the crux of it. Well, and it’s like I said earlier, I would be one of these clients if I weren’t in this role here, I would be one of those people.

What are you doing today? Let me log in and it’s just how I am, you know, and people are like that. We’re all. You know, we’re all unique and we all do things differently and we have things that make us feel comfortable and, and don’t, and I’m not one that like unleashes control very easily. So I would be a terrible client in that respect.

Well, maybe that’s, maybe that’s the moral behind this episode then, which is, you know, just, just consider the type of client you would be and Don’t be like that

wasn’t what I thought you were going to say. I don’t know whether you’re going to say, but it wasn’t that. Oh, well, I hope you found this, uh, this episode, uh, interesting. I do feel that we’re starting to do a ramble now. So let’s, let’s, let’s wrap it up. But yeah, I hope you’ve got something from it. Show notes, uh, linked in, uh, in this episode.

And if we can help you with your SEO delivery, make sure you go and check us out at seohive. co. We’ll be more than, more than delighted to chat through how we could work and work with you and support you. Uh, otherwise. I guess we’ll see you in the next show. See ya.